O LORD, SAVE CHRISTIAN ORTHODOXY FROM THE SATANIC JUDEO WEST AND ISLAMOPHOBIA! Part 1
Voices from Russia
Wednesday, 2 May 2012
2 May 2012. A Picture IS Worth a Thousand Words… Real-Deal People on a Real-Deal Easter…
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In real-deal parishes, one sees such things as priests “flubbing their lines” at services, altar boys bagging Z’s in the sacristy on Easter,
one of the ladies frantically calling friends to make sure there’s
enough to go around at the coffee hour, and the deacon dropping the Holy Water
during a blessing. God SMILES at all that… He came to save us
sinful-ginfuls, NOT the “church hobbyists”. I love the REAL Church, with
all of its scars, bumps, zits, and belches… now, THAT’S Christianity!
BMD
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Tuesday, 17 April 2012
17 April 2012. A Multimedia Presentation. A Little Bit of Paschal Joy…
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Almaty (Almaty Special City) KAZAKHSTAN
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Bishkek (Bishkek Special City) KYRGYZSTAN
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Kiev (Kiev Special City) THE UKRAINE
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Ethiopian Orthodox believers in the Church of the Holy Sepulchre in the Old City of Jerusalem PALESTINE (under Israeli occupation) with the Holy Fire… although we aren’t in communion, the Greek patriarch sees to it that the Ethiopians share in the Holy Fire.
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Sofia BULGARIA
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Moscow (Federal City of Moscow) RF
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Ceremony of the Holy Fire in the Church of the Holy Sepulchre in the Old City of Jerusalem (under Israeli occupation)
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From the description of the last video:On the night of 14/15 April, Archbishop Luke of Zaporozhe and Melitopol served Easter Liturgy at the Holy Virgin Protection Cathedral in Zaporozhye. There are festivals more accompanied by expectations of great trepidation than actual celebration. Apparently, this is one of the peculiarities of human nature. However, let’s speak of a unique holiday, which we believe is the most beautiful, most illuminating, most generous, and most important in the life of any person. This holiday is Easter… the resurrection of Christ Light. Infinite spiritual awe and unspeakable joy accompany the waiting, meeting, and celebration of Easter. ”Christ is risen!” In these two words lies a secret of our eternal human nature. Being involved in this mystery isn’t only an involvement in a historical fact, such the construction of the Egyptian pyramids, or the first flight into space. To be involved in it means to answer the questions that tormented and haunted us for many hundreds of years. If the resurrection of nature, which mankind watches every spring, becomes commonplace, then, what about the resurrection of man? Surely, it’s beyond the mind of all, we don’t understand it; a common yardstick can’t measure it. That belief has led us all to the church through faith, Easter joy is the joy of all and of each individual. Is this why the many-times-repeated “Christ is Risen”, pronounced by Vladyki, find an echo in the hearts of believers, not only do they desire to answer “Truly, He is Risen”, but also do they realise that that, at last, there was a welcome, as I dreamed, bringing meaning to our lives?
This is from the REAL Ukrainian Orthodox Church under the MP… from Zaporozhe, no less! Don’t listen to Uniate or schismatical lies… these are the only REAL Orthodox in the Ukraine… keep them in your prayers and in mind. The American government (especially Langley) attacks these good people… and supports their godless opponents with money and material aid (and eggs on the Galician diaspora in the USA
and Canada to aid unhealthy elements in the Ukraine). Bear that in mind
when you hear bloviating about “democracy” from American politicians…
they support the foes of Christ’s Church (don’t forget that they aided
the Nazis willingly, too… they weren’t averse to murdering Jews,
Russians, and Roma)! They want to tear out the heart of our faith and
replace it with extremist rightwing money-grubbing, “Me First”
selfishness, and sectarian “Me n’ Jayzuss” foolishness. Oppose them with
all your might… especially, those who want to ally the Church with the Republican Party. We CAN keep the Church ORTHODOX…
BMD
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Friday, 13 April 2012
13 April 2012. A Time to Reflect Upon the “Really Real”…
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The traditional time for Our Lord Christ‘s death on the cross is 15.00. The Noble Joseph is asking for the body…BMD
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13 April 2012. A Photo Essay. A Point of Unity… Catholic Holy Week and Easter 2012
A young Pakistani Christian girl at Easter Mass at St John Church in Peshawar (Peshawar District. Khyber Pakhtunkhwa Province) PAKISTAN, 8 April 2012
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Penitents in a religious procession pass pattern of coloured sawdust in Antigua Guatemala (Sacatepéquez Department) GUATEMALA, Good Friday, 6 April 2012
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A girl in a religious procession with the image of the Virgin Mary in Pátzcuaro (Municipality of Pátzcuaro. Michoacán State) MEXICO, Good Friday, 6 April 2012
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Believers carry a statue of Jesus of Nazareth during a traditional procession called “Ribbons of Jesus of Nazareth” on Holy Wednesday, 4 April 2012, in Cartago (Cartago Canton. Cartago Province) COSTA RICA
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‘The Devil’ whips Catholics to drive away their sins, Holy Monday, San Salvador (San Salvador Department) EL SALVADOR, 2 April 2012
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Presentation of “Via Dolorosa” in Asunción (Gran Asunción Autonomous Capital District) PARAGUAY, Good Friday, 6 April 2012
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On 6 April 2012, Good Friday, pilgrims from all over the world formed a procession along the tidal causeway to Holy Island on April 6 in the English town of Berwick-upon-Tweed (Shire of Northumberland. North East England) ENGLAND UK in a traditional annual Holy Week pilgrimage.
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Members of the Brotherhood “Cofradia del Silencio”, Zamora (Province of Zamora. Autonomous Community of Castilla y León) SPAIN, Holy Wednesday, 4 April 2012
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Easter bonfire in Elbingerode (Landkreis Harz. Bundesland Sachsen-Anhalt) GERMANY, Holy Saturday, 7 April 2012
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Romanian artist Lucia Kondrea shows her work at an exhibition of painted Easter eggs, 29 March 2012, Brussels (Brussels-Capital Region) BELGIUM
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Archbishop John Sentamu baptised believer in York (North Yorkshire. Yorkshire and the Humber Region) ENGLAND UK, Holy Saturday, 7 April 2012
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Church of the Holy Sepulchre in Old City of Jerusalem PALESTINE (under Israeli occupation), Good Friday, 6 April 2012
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Христос воскресе из мертвых, Смертию смерть поправ; И сущым во гробѣх живот даровав!
Christ is risen from the dead, trampling on death by death; and upon those in the tombs, bestowing life!
BMD
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Great Week… The Path of the Passion
“Crucify Him!”
Ivan Glazunov
2000s
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There’s more than one way of
crucifying Our Lord… some are open and easy to detect. Many others are
subtle, and are more dangerous… don’t forget, the Black Hundreds chanted moliebens
and marched with icons. The result of that was the Persecution of the
Militant Godless, to burn out the rot. Not all that glitters is gold…
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This year, Great Passion Week or Holy Week begins for Orthodox believers on 9 April, which is the last week before the Easter
celebrations. The Church advises Christians to follow an especially
strict fast to prepare physically and mentally for one of the most
important events of the Church’s history… the miracle of the
resurrection of the Lord. Hieromonk Dmitri Pershin, of the MP Department for Youth Affairs, told VOR
in an interview, “During Holy Week, we recall what God’s done for
mankind. This is a time when we temporarily forget about our failings
and remember God’s sacrifice. That’s why Christians call Holy Week
‘Great Week’. Holy Week marks the Gospel events that took place in the
week before the crucifixion and resurrection of our Lord and brings them to life for us. On Great Wednesday, Judas betrayed Christ; the Lord held the Last Supper and gave communion to all the apostles, including Judas, then, He knelt in the Garden of Gethsemane and prayed, covered in bloody sweat. After that, the guard came and took Christ into custody, taking him to the High Priest’s court, and, then, to Pontius Pilate. Pilate gave him over to His passion on Golgotha. Finally,
the Lord died on the cross. They buried him in a cave. These are the
events we commemorate during Holy Week, as we pass with Christ along the
way of His passion”.
The last days of Holy Week are particularly solemn and sombre for believers. On Great Thursday, the services focus on four major gospel events… the Last Supper (when the Lord established the sacrament of Holy Communion), the Lord’s washing of the feet of the Apostles
as a sign of profound humility and love for them, the prayer of the
Saviour in the Garden of Gethsemane, and the betrayal of Judas. On Good Friday, we recall His condemnation to death, and the Saviour’s suffering and death of the cross. On Great Saturday, it’s a day when we remember the burial of Jesus Christ,
the stay of His body in the tomb, the descent of His soul into Hades to
announce His victory over death, and the redemption of the souls who
awaited his coming in faith.
This year, the Lent that preceded Christ’s Passion Week was a sore trial for Orthodox believers in Russia. Last month, anticlerical persecutions and scandals buffeted both the MP and Patriarch Kirill, disconcerting believers. Fr Vadim Leonov, who teaches at Orthodox St Tikhon Humanities University
(PSTGU), said, “I’m sure that the present Holy Week will give believers
a deeper understanding of who Christ was and what He means in the life
of every Christian. In the Gospel, we see where the disciples of Jesus
Christ, and those who accompanied him, had to make a choice… just who
are they? Do they stand with their teacher, or, do they join those who
shouted ‘Crucify him, crucify him!’ It seems to me that such a personal
choice faces each of us today. The recent attacks perpetrated against
the Church were so violent and so massive that everyone had to choose,
we found out to what extent we were true to Christ and His Church”.
In Jerusalem on Holy Saturday, on the eve of Orthodox Easter, at the Church of the Holy Sepulchre,
believers observe the coming of the Holy Fire. Each year, thousands of
Christians of all confessions from around the world strive to go to
Jerusalem to witness the miracle. Beginning in 2007, thanks to the
support of the Foundation of St Andrew the First-Called, a delegation
takes the Holy Fire from Jerusalem in a special container to Moscow for
the Paschal Liturgy at the Cathedral of Christ the Saviour. The lighting of candles from the miraculous flame marks the beginning of the Easter celebrations in Moscow.
8 April 2012
Milena Faustova
Voice of Russia World Service
Editor’s Note:
The above article references the attacks on His Holiness’
integrity in the Western media. Without a doubt, any fair enquirer
would find out that these scurrilous lies came from the circle around Boris Berezovsky, and Langley
spreads them… that is, by those with an open anti-Church agenda. There
are also those with anti-Church agendas, but they’re more subtle… we
must be on our guard against them. For instance, on 3 April, the ROCOR Diocese of the Midwest Pastoral Conference was hoodwinked into supporting the Far Rightwing rubbish of the so-called “Pro-Life” lobby (it’s nothing but a Trojan Horse of the nastiest segment of the Republican Party).
This lobby supports all kinds of anti-Christian initiatives that honest
and decent Christians should stay away from… perpetual warfare in
foreign parts, the shredding of the social safety net, the granting
of privileges to the richest individuals and corporations, the scrapping
of all environmental and labour regulation, an attempt to impose
sectarian values and behaviour on the general population… and that does
NOT exhaust the list.
It’s one thing to take a stance in favour
of what the Church teaches… but we should shy away from anything that
links the Church to partisan faction… of either Left or Right. By
endorsing the language that they did, the Midwest clergy allied
themselves with the foulest pigs in the Republican Party… people such as
Darrell Issa, who supported secret CIA
torture facilities abroad. That’s to say, when the Midwest clergy
approved that specific resolution, they said “amen” to torture… they
said “amen” to aggressive war… they said “amen” to smashing their heel
into the faces of the most vulnerable Americans. May God forgive us for
such supreme blasphemy. Oh, yes… His Holiness SUPPORTS single-payer
healthcare, government subsidies for families, the building up of the
social safety net, the end of the blockade of Cuba, and the end of
American aggression in the Middle East and Afghanistan… I just thought
that you’d like to know that…
Not all foulness is manifest… some comes in “pious” vesture and kisses icons. We forget that at our peril…
BMD
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Friday, 6 April 2012
6 April 2012. To All My Friends Keeping Good Friday Today…
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I waited until after the traditional time of Our Lord’s death on the cross at 15.00 to post this… it seemed fitting to me…BMD
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Friday, 30 March 2012
30 March 2012. Something to Think About From Mother Jones… Our Lord Christ is NOT About “Pie in the Sky When You Die”
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Christ
was the carpenter’s son… not the son of the professor… not the son of
the businessman… not the son of the priest. Puts the rants of the Evangelical gospellers
in a different light, doesn’t it? Do attend to the fact that He drove
out the money-grubbing merchants from the Temple… and that most
duplicitous “preachers” today defend capitalism and its bestial
depredations bareheaded in the pulpit. I think that He’d bring out the
ol’ cat o’ nine tails, yet again, don’t you think?
BMD
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Saturday, 24 March 2012
24 March 2012. Mother Jones Speaks… on Christ… and how “Christians” Would Tack Him Up Yet Again If They Had Half a Chance to…
A man cleaning a statue of Christ in Noida (Gautam Buddha Nagar District. Uttar Pradesh) INDIA. That’s we have to do… we have to clean off all the noxious filth put onto Our Lord Christ by the unhinged haters of the Moral Majority, by the deluded “March for Life” participants, and by the bloviating Rightwing political
preachers… make no mistake, we’ve been spattered by this rubbishy
twaddle, too. We have clergy and believers contaminated by the likes of Regent University and ORU… we need to get back to what Our Lord taught… not what some crackbrained tin-tabernacle preacher dribbles at a Pat Robertson rally. It’s up to us…
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Mother Jones
told a preacher, “There was a man once who walked among men, among the
poor and the despised and the lowly, and he agitated against the powers
of Rome, against the lickspittle Jews of the local pie counter; he agitated for the Kingdom of God!”
The preacher asked her, “Are you speaking of Jesus Christ?”
She replied, “I am. The agitator you nailed to a cross some centuries ago”.
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You can have His Holiness, who supports state subsidies for unwed mothers, the continuance of the state healthcare system, and is friends with Gennady Zyuganov,
or, you can have Jonas Paffhausen, who opposes state healthcare, who
doesn’t want state subsidies for anybody (let alone unwed mothers), and
is friends with oddbod Mormons and loony Moonies.
You can have Christ’s Way, or… need I say more? His Holiness is RIGHT…
Paffhausen’s WRONG… and that’s all that there is to say on the matter.
BMD
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Tuesday, 13 March 2012
13 March 2012. A Multimedia Presentation. A Lenten Meditation… Miracles on the Roads of War
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Kids in Kazakhstan honour the heroes… there’s not a word spoken… nor is there any need to…
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Nothing is forgotten… no one
is forgotten… if we forget the past and those who lived it, we’ll relive
the tragedy, magnified by our fecklessness and ignorance. The West considered us brutish subhumanity then (even our Western allies
thought of us as somewhat-alien semi-humans)… many still think in such
terms… think on THAT. There’s a moment of silence punctuated by a
metronome in the middle of the work…
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“Eternal Memory to the Fallen” by the Aleksandrov Ensemble (the old Red Army Chorus)… “Know, O man, that the days of life are numbered…”
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Russians of all faiths pray for the dead of the Great Patriotic War… let no one disparage the courage of the Red Army and the accomplishment of the Great Victory.
May the steadfast courage and perseverance of those who lived in the
war years enable us to do likewise, to avoid the siren call of godless
materialism and crass acquisitiveness. Do you want a crown in Heaven or
do you want a McMansion in the “right” suburb? Now, THAT’S a Lenten meditation.
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Click here for an audio presentation from the Voice of Russia World Service… Miracles on the Roads of War. It lasts 26 minutes… it makes a meaningful Lenten meditation.
с Нами бог! God IS with us!
We have a bit more to go on the Lenten path… next Sunday (18 March) is the Sunday of the Cross, the mid-point of the Great Fast.
It’s always been special for me… in my practise, I remember all those
in my life who’ve passed on. We’ll make a special effort to be at
Liturgy, to be sure. Easter
comes on 15 April, a week after my birthday on 8 April. We still have
about a month left in the Fast… if we remember the path of those who
went before us, the chances of us leaving the right path is minimised.
We should emulate the wordless and determined heroism of the people of
the VOV, not the wordy and showy posturing of the konvertsy.
It’s your choice…
Barbara-Marie Drezhlo
Tuesday 13 March 2012
Albany NY
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Monday, 5 March 2012
Fr Vsevolod Chaplin Warned the Opposition Not to React Violently
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On Monday, Archpriest Vsevolod Chaplin, the head of the MP Department
for Church and Society, urged the opposition to express its position
peacefully and within the law, saying, “When people peacefully express
their opinion, even critically, it isn’t illegal or sinful at all. Sin
and lawlessness begins when people allow themselves to lie, throwing
around unsubstantiated accusations, insulting people on national,
social, political, or other grounds”. In his view, such acts violate
both God’s law and human law, and he said, “It’s very sinful,
disorderly, and criminal to advocate rebellion, revolution, violation of
the laws, or the illegitimate use of force. This would be particularly
immoral at a time when the people’s choice is clear. Anyone who makes
such calls, of course, will bear personal responsibility not only to the
people and to history, but before God, as well. He went on to say its
one thing to hear such notions from the mouths of “poorly educated
teenagers”; it’s quite another thing when “well-educated people who’re
well aware of what their actions mean express them. You can’t chalk up
their words to naïveté and inexperience; therefore, for them, you must
fully apply the word of the Lord Jesus… From everyone to whom much is given, much will be required”.
As reported, on Monday, the opposition will hold a government-approved rally from 19.30 to 21.00 MSK on Pushkinskaya Square.
The organisers claim that up to 10,000 people will participate in the
demonstration. Opposition activists, journalists, and bloggers formed a
joint-action group entitled За честные выборы (Za
chestnye vybory: For Fair Elections) on 18 January 2012 and united
their efforts in a Лигу избирателей (Ligu izbiratelei: Voter’s League). Sergei Udaltsov, the leader of the Левый фронт (Levy Front: Left Front), wrote in his microblog on Twitter
that the For Fair Elections Organising Committee decided not to
recognise the legitimacy of the election, and that they would announce
that at the rally. Later, he told Interfax
that the protesters would demand an early call for new parliamentary
and presidential elections and “strengthen our protest activity to
achieve these goals”.
5 March 2012
Interfax-Religion
Editor’s Note:
There were noises from the usual quarters about the Russian election. I’d advise Hill to keep her big mouth shut. Arkansas politics aren’t exactly known for probity, and Bill wasn’t exactly a straight-dealer. In short, there was (and still is) more than one stuffed ballot box in Little Rock, and there’s no peep about that. The late Russian election had no more (or no less) fraud than the usual election in the West. If anything, VVP was far “cleaner” than George W Bush was, now, he stole the US presidency with a sleazy court decision. Now, that’s something to bitch about…
BMD
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Saturday, 4 February 2012
4 February 2012. A Point to Ponder: Stephen Prothero on Ayn Rand and Jesus Christ: “You Can’t Reconcile Ayn Rand and Jesus”
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The new darling of the Republican Party is
pro-choice and anti-religion. She once wrote that, since “an embryo has
no rights”, abortion “should be left to the sole discretion of the
woman involved”. When asked by Playboy magazine
whether religion “ever offered anything of constructive value to human
life”, she answered, “No”, adding, “Faith, as such, is extremely
detrimental to human life”. Her name’s Ayn Rand, and although she died in 1982, this novelist, philosopher, and anti-communist crusader is the hot new thing in the GOP. The American public may have met the April opening of Atlas Shrugged, a film based on her novel of the same name, with a collective shrug, but Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh tout her books, and her genius. Moreover, the opening line of Atlas Shrugged (“Who is John Galt?”) pops up regularly on handmade signs at Tea Party rallies.
Among Rand’s adoring acolytes on Capitol Hill is Representative Paul Ryan (R-WI), who, at a Library of Congress
symposium held in 2005 on the centenary of the Rand’s birth, called her
“The reason I got involved in public service”. Representative Ron Paul (R-TX), who announced his third presidential run recently, invoked Rand in the House on matters as disparate as NASA and the Post Office. His son, Senator Rand Paul (R-KY), used her novel Anthem in Senate hearings in April to argue against government regulations to phase out the incandescent light bulb. When asked to name his favourite political philosopher, George W Bush named Jesus Christ.
However, Ayn Rand’s the GOP’s new saviour, and no one seems to be
taking notice of just how opposed their two philosophies are.
Individualism vs Collectivism
In Rand’s Manichaean world, it isn’t God vs Satan, but individualism vs collectivism. Whilst Jesus said, “Blessed are the poor”, she sings Hosannas to the rich. The heroes of Atlas Shrugged (which, alas, is only slightly shorter than the Bible)
are captains of industry such as John Galt. The villains are the
“looters” and “moochers”… people who by hook (guilt), or by crook
(government coercion), steal from the hard-won earnings of others.
Turning the tables on traditional Christian morality, Rand argues that altruism is immoral and selfishness is good. Moreover, there isn’t a problem in the world that Laissez-faire Capitalism can’t solve if left alone to perform its miracles.
I first read Atlas Shrugged and her other popular novel, The Fountainhead, whilst festival-hopping in Spain after
graduating from college, so, I can attest to the appeal of this
philosophy to late adolescents of a certain gender. As an adult,
however, Rand’s work reads to me like a vulgar rationalisation for greed
situated on top of a perverse myth of the right relationship between
individual and community. Therefore, when Ryan said, “Ayn Rand, more
than anyone else, did a fantastic job of explaining the morality of
capitalism, the morality of individualism”, I have to question his use
of the word “explaining”. “Duping” seems like the more appropriate verb.
As someone who’s written extensively on the religious illiteracy of the
American public, I’m not surprised that few Republicans today seem to
understand that marrying Ayn Rand to Jesus Christ is like trying to
interest Lady Gaga in Donny Osmond. Nevertheless, there’s nothing Christian about Rand’s Objectivism. In fact, it’s farther from Christianity than the Marxism that Rand so abhorred. Despite the attempt of the advertising executive Bruce Barton to turn Jesus into a CEO in his novel The Man Nobody Knows (1925), Jesus was a first-class, grade-A “moocher”.
However, I’m somewhat surprised at how few GOP thinkers seem to see how hostile her philosophy is to conservatism itself.
First and foremost, REAL conservatism is about conserving a society’s
traditions, including its religious and political traditions. However,
Rand’s Objectivism rejects, in the name of reason, appeals to either
revelation or tradition. The individual’s her hero, and God and the dead
be damned. Real conservatism is also about sacrifice, as is authentic
Christianity. President Kennedy was
liberal in many ways, but “Ask not what your country can do for you…
ask what you can do for your country” was classic conservatism. Rand,
however, will brook no such sacrifice. Serve yourself, she tells us, and
save yourself as well. There’s no higher good than individual
self-satisfaction. One of the reasons we’re in our current economic
quagmire is that none of our leaders is willing to ask us to sacrifice. Democrats call
for more spending and more taxes; Republicans call for lower taxes and
less spending, so, what we get is the most fiscally ruinous half of
each… lower taxes and more spending.
A Budget of “Too Little Jesus”
Over the last few weeks, various
Christian groups have criticised Republican leaders for proposing a 2012
budget that, in their view, is both un-Christian and anti-life. First,
dozens of professors, priests, and nuns at various Catholic universities criticised House Speaker John Boehner
(R-OH) for a legislative record on the poor that was, in their
estimation, “amongst the worst in Congress. Mr Speaker, your voting
record is at variance from one of the Church’s most ancient moral
teachings. From the Apostles to the present, the Magisterium of the Church has insisted that those in power are morally obliged to preference the needs of the poor”. Then, a consortium of evangelical and
Catholic groups aired an ad scolding Ryan, who spearheaded that GOP
budget, for his own “anti-life” stands. In this ad, Fr Thomas Kelley, a
self-described “pro-life” priest from Elkhorn WI,
insisted, “God calls us to protect life at all stages”, not just in the
womb. In short, these Christians are telling the GOP that there is too
much Rand in their budget, and too little Jesus.
I don’t see either Atlas Shrugged or
the Bible as Holy Writ. I think the Bible is more wise, better written,
and, ironically, less likely to come across as “holier-than-thou”, but I
haven’t come either to bury Ayn Rand or to lament her recent
resurrection. My aim is to force a choice. If you’re going to propose a Robin Hood budget,
you have to decide whether you’re robbing from the poor to give to the
rich, or robbing from the rich to give to the poor, because you can’t do
both. You can’t worship both the God of Jesus and the Mammon of Rand. I don’t agree very often with the Watergate criminal and evangelical leader Chuck Colson,
but he has it right when he refers to Rand’s “idolatry of self and
selfishness” as “the antithesis of Christianity”, Rand’s trinity is “I…
me… mine”. Christianity’s is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
So, take your pick… or, say no to both. It’s a free country. Just don’t
tell me you’re both a card-carrying Objectivist and a Bible-believing
Christian. Even Rand knew that just wasn’t possible.
5 June 2011
Stephen Prothero
Professor of Religion
Boston University
USA Today
BUT, is there really a GOD to save anybody from themselves?
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